Almost identical roasts, drastic cup deference

I can’t speak to your coffee, but I’ll say I’ve had issues in the past few years with Ethiopian coffees fading more after harvest than normal. Typically you can get coffee 12-18mo away from harvest and still have stellar results. Not so much in the past few years. Even worse, so importers have been straight relabeling or past crop blending old coffee because there was a lot left over in 2022 season. I can’t say that is the case here, but it’s possible this coffee is past it’s prime.

I don’t think that’s the case because I tried the coffee roasted by the vendor before buying the greens and it was incredible and exotic almost like drinking juice, the coffee beans had united color before and after roasting so it is probably same harvest.

To your roasting question a couple thoughts: I’d recommend holding your fan constant. Either F3 or F4, just enough to get rid of your chaff, but not enough that it causes a cooling effect. When you are troubleshooting especially, eliminating any extra adjustments can help pinpoint problem areas.

Next, since you are missing the acids, I’d aim to speed up the roast. Namely, for FC to happen closer to 715-730. This will mean holding your p9 power longer before you taper power. If you hold the fan constant, you might be able to keep your power settings as they are, as the roaster is going to hold more heat.

I will try that and hope it works, thanks

it is because i changed the X and Y graph values on the RoasTime to have a still frame on the active roast, similar to Artisan.

I tried to embed the graphs in the post but it didn’t work

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Thanks for clearing that up, but I was more interested as to why the temperatures are so different? Shouldn’t they be the same? Which one is correct?

you are actually right, I am not sure why but i think roast.world is probably the right one!

Don’t let them teach you anything without a fight, brothuh! Stand strong :muscle:!

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I hear you! No need to beat a dead horse just for my slow brain! You have defined delta well.

Getting back to the thread, one area that would be interesting to expand on, is how did you know that Andrew’s roast was “right” and the OP’s roast was not? You gave an example of the Delta and development percentage, and the commented that the OP did not slow the roast at the “right” time.

I’m just curious, how are you determining that the OP has it wrong and Coe has it right? Not looking for a rule, just your impression or experience in how these things would alter flavor?

First, I think “know” is a big word and wouldn’t use it here. As you can see, I got the temperature readings wrong, and I’m starting to think that there was some bug or miscommunication between the two.

Second, I’m in full agreement with Münchow’s published study. I don’t think there are other factors that determine flavour beside colour and, to a lesser degree, development. I wouldn’t consider other factors if they’re not roasting defects. This, apart from the published results in the study, has also been my practical experience. Now, when you see someone fumbling near the end and raising the fan and dropping power, it means that this was caused before. Playing with the fan is almost never a good thing. But if you have a larger batch and need to keep it going, then you might benefit from raising it later on, but not excessively. I’m guessing that this coffee has a decent amount of chaff even at early stages and, if the fan is not high enough to blow it out, it will cause a steep rise and a sharp fall, once that chaff clears up a bit, which is what this looks like to me. As a footnote I’ll add that some people crank up the fan to 10 a little before dropping the beans to blow out any remaining chaff. This is done near the end because it’s practically the start of cooling, because you’ll see your curve plummet to the bottom.

Last, but not least, I’m taking these guesses because I roast and try different things. If someone else does something, I will try it. I mean, why not? It’s not set in stone how the coffee should be roasted or how exactly it should taste. That’s commodity coffee way of doing things. Over roast and see if you can tell the difference between coffees. I cannot even smell commodity coffee, let alone drink it. I do not understand how people were trained to like the stuff. There’s also a small sample study on the Coffee Mind site that is called “Quality does not sell itself”. Also, when a roast goes wrong for me, by my parameters, I always give it to people who say that it’s still better than what they buy. I mean, I can clearly see it’s nothing I’d dare sell, but they can identify that they’re dealing with higher quality product even as such. So, I’d say that it’s just exposure and also the fact that people drink coffee way too hot, because trained that way. That will certainly have an effect on the palate. There was a study that was trying to link cancer with Yerba Maté, but the conclusion was that it was the temperature at which they consumed it.
Cancer and yerba mate consumption: a review of possible associations - PubMed (nih.gov)

After this digression, I will repeat what I’ve said many times here. Do not try to emulate others. Roast and learn, rinse and repeat. There are guidelines, but there will always be differences between roasters. Not that one is bad and the other is good, just different.

@braca19452f9m

That is good advice! Also, crazy about Yerba Mate causing cancer!

I’ll try to get some new beans in to try and put some of these theories to test. What have you been using lately that you like?

It’s only been 4days since your last post, so unlikely you’e been able to test more than one revision, but would be interesting to hear how things are going once you get some more rounds in.

UPDATE
I attended Morten Munchow’s coffee-mind course suggested by @braca19452f9m where he challenges current misconceptions that is floating the roasters society in regards to roasting profile parameters like the ROR, dev time, dev ratio, time to first crack, etc… and their correlation to the resulted bean attributes such as the sweetness, body, bitterness, acidity, fruity, etc… in a scientific manner that is backed by research done considering scientific approach.
The course is full of data and theories and graphs but Morten does a really good job explaining everything.
It was difficult to adapt the theories the goes against everything I have learnt in the past whether from the internet or fellow roasters but I am glad I did.

I went back and roasted my costa rica black honey coffee using Munchow’s findings and the result was the best roast so far in terms of the coffee itself (not the graph) which is what matters the most.

If you are doing well with your roaster and are happy the results I wouldn’t suggest taking the course or reading Munchow’s publications because he tends to challenge the residing theories which will only confuse you. If you are kind of not getting what you hoped for out of your coffee like i was, then the course is a must (attend with open mind).

thank you @braca19452f9m

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@gdegde481.i9qy1

In terms of “best roast”, what made it better for you?

Have you tried Morten’s method with the Ethio Benti? Would be interested in hearing about that since anaerobics and honeyed coffees are a lot different.