900g Full Flame test

Hey all.

I just watched the video from Morten Münchow’s and his approach to roasting. This is the path I’ve decided to walk down for now.

Has anyone here been able to get to FC around 7:30 using a 900g charge without adjustments made along the way?

P9 F2 D9 preheat 300c = FC @ 10:10
P9 F2 D9 preheat max = FC @ 9:10

I’m going to try F1 and F2 tonight, after that the only other variable would be the drum speed.

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I did a couple as well (mine are 1kg, at 260C and 310C PH, charge is 15min after the roaster indicates ready, and ambient temp/humidity are pretty close):


Best I got was FC at 8:45. I might try a 900g charge; that datapoint might be useful to you and me both (not sure how linear the charge weight vs FC time relationship but it’d be cool to find out, and I have about 2.5kg of these greens still).

Some observations:

  • Your 10C difference in preheat resulted in a 60s change in FC time. My 50C difference changed FC time by 93s; this is a bit surprising!
  • The onset of FC for both of my roasts was at a bit higher temp than I’d normally see (203C, typically 200C). Not sure if this is do to the larger batch, or if it’s something to do with this variety.

If you search “coffeemind” or something similar on RoastWorld you should see results from others.

Morten Münchow just happed to respond to an earlier question regarding one of the live webinars and I took the opportunity to ask him about his settings. His response:

image


Interestingly enough, my FC and SC were almost exactly 2C different from one test to the other. This could also be because I used the voice amp for the first time and was more prepared the second roast.

I really wonder if the difference is the 110v vs 220v

I figured this would be enough distance, especially since it’s not sealed?

I’d @ someone from Aillio but I’m not sure who to ping

Could be. There was an bit in Morten’s interview with Aillio where they were discussing about how the 220V version could roast considerably larger batches, but it’s been limited so that it performs comparably to the 110V version.

I got to FC @ 8:08 when I did the online course with Morten using 1000g and PH310,P9,F3
I am on 220V

I am currently experimenting with adopting his approach to do a 600g roast

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Does the Cloudline S8 you’re using have settings to step through different CFM? If it does maybe play with that, if not maybe pull the vent hose up a little bit? Maybe that will help with the S8 not sucking up too much air out of the roaster. In the other thread where we discussed venting the exhaust, I had mentioned my range hood vent is capable of up to 900CFM with 6-step settings, FWIW, I usually use between settings 3 and 5 depending how dark I’m roasting.

I’m using at half power so If the CFM rating is legit and it scales proportionally, it’d be 200 CFM.

I’m going to repeat the full flame with the same settings with F1 and F3. Then I’ll pick the fastest profile and run it again with the vent further away

So I just burned through 6.3kg of beans tonight trying to duplicate Morton’s results.

I moved the vent hood up. A lot.

310C Preheat/ P9 for all roasts
F1-F3.
D9-D6

Never got close to a 7:30 FC.

8:19 was the closest I got with 310 PH, P9, F1, D6

This threw two warnings for over heating the PCB and bean sensor.

My only anomaly I feel like is that I am using a 10 gauge 25ft extension cord to reach a dedicated 20 amp outlet. I bought a kil-o-watt meter and there is no voltage difference during preheating when plugged directly into the outlet vs the extension cord. I can’t run a full roast because I don’t have a venting solution if I have to stay within the stock cord distance.

Can anyone here on 110v get a seven and a half minute 900g first crack?

Emailed Aillio.

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Just curious (as I haven’t gone through Morton’s video), what’s the rational for a fast roast of trying to hit FC at 7:30 or this full flame test?

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The cliff notes version is that Morton’s technique is to control the events of the roast with one variable: heat transfer. If you can hit first crack somewhere around seven and a half minutes, your system has enough power to follow this system.

So he first roasts the max charge and notes FC, SC and the temp in between. His plan is to decrease the flame twice during the roast. The first decrease delays first crack to 9 minutes, the second decrease stretches the development time.

I am unable to do this because I can’t get first crack before 9 minutes without using unreasonable settings like drum speed 6, fan 1, 310 preheat at full power

Roasting 900g is critical as it amounts to two batches of coffee for me to sell. I could roast two 450g batches but that would take twice the time and defeats the purpose of buying the roaster.

I sell 12oz bags, so I might be able to get by with 800g charges but that’d be cutting it really close, especially with dark roasts

Update: I took the roaster outside and plugged it directly into a new isolated 20 amp circuit. No extension cord, no hood. Upon overlay, roast was basically identical to the indoor setup.

I get a shutdown error every half dozen or so roasts where the induction coil is too hot.

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Any reason not to try D5 … just guessing based on that screen show you’re showing where you hit FC at 8:19 with P9/F1/D6 with PH 310 and see if it brings it down closer to your 7:30 target?

Yes with these settings you’re def going to get the shutdown error.

Also I do think his use of a v220 vs our v110 does make a difference. I’m not an EE but I do remember a travel hairdryer (that can be used with v220 or v110) ran hotter with v220. Maybe someone with EE background can explain.

I did another roast with PH 310, P9, F1, D4 and got a FC at 9:13.

Why can’t I get a 900g charge to first crack in 8 minutes with what I assume to be an overly aggressive heating profile but you can get an 8 minute first crack with 1000g while decreasing your heat as shown here? Your first crack temperature is only 2C different than mine.

I’m theorizing this but have no proof… possibly the bean mass and the type of bean (and possibly the age). If you sort for only my 1kg roasts you’ll see that those Ethiopians seems to roast a bit “faster” than the others and my profile for 1kg roasts is pretty consistent - see below screen shot. As for your D4 I wonder if that is not agitating the beans enough for the mass to absorb the heat. So this begs the question if whether it is reasonable to replicate Morton’s experience exactly when we’re on v110. Maybe that at v110 it is reasonable to be hitting FC at ~8:30. There’s probably an inflection point where the change in D speed won’t work.

cough cough seasoning beans cough cough

Another little tidbit that I am -completely- ignoring is where he spends a significant time explaining why it really doesn’t matter, within reason, how long it takes to get to first crack. Like almost 14 minutes to first crack doesn’t matter.

I’d buy that.

I’m probably going to run one more low drum speed test and shelve the whole thing until I hear back from Aillio support.

So… if your setup gets you a consistent, say, FC at 8:30 why not just go with that and apply the rest of his philosophy from there? :wink:

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Support responded and gave me some tests to run.

Not Listening La La GIF by Ranveer Singh

I conducted a wattage test at the request of Aillio support.

I measured the wattage in ascending order from P1 to P9

P9 had a lower starting wattage than P8 and dropped steadily down to P6 power level.

I cooled the roaster down and did the same test but started with P9. Started at 1534w and steadily dropped down to P8 wattage. Power level was still declining when I ended the test.

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Anyone bored with a wattmeter want to compare notes while I wait for support?

I’m confident that the continual drop in wattage at P9 is outside of spec.

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