Recipe creation and issues

tbird1306 · October 7, 2024, 1:25am

Hey folks,

I am wanting to modify a recipe I created from a roast. I use bean probe and time as my markers (I have professionally roasted on a Probat p12) the ibts is fine but I don’t like how janky the line is with the temp readout.

In the recipe - my initial settings are 2 or 3 lines down from the top with their times being 1:30.

Modifying the bean probe settings doesn’t allow for a change before 1:30s - which is infuriating. I’m going to try switch to time based for the initial settings (P/D/F) but has anyone had any luck with using either time or ibts for initial settings?

For reference, I changes the initial to P7 - down from P8 - saved, reset, the whole shebang and when I went to roast - it went to P8 when I started the roast (not preheat, but drop/charge starting)

I want reliable start settings - I use bean probe for roasting, but what’s the best way to initialise and then be comfortable in changing recipe?

Would appreciate any feedback on recipe creation and manipulation.

billc · October 7, 2024, 3:04am

I don’t know how much help I can be for you.

I use recipes for most of my roasts.
I use the IBTS for most of the rungs of my ladder.
I really don’t use the time as a controlling factor in my recipes, with one exception. If I want a 1 minute dwell after pre-heat I will put in time values.

Here is an example of how I use a recipe:

I set up the preheat. It might look like this:

After the Bullet has reached 518F and soaked the drum for about 10 minutes (I don’t have any control over how long the pre-heat will take)
The bullet will say “Charge” Then I load the green beans and the Bullet will then say: “Now roasting”

The Bullet will now begin the roast with the settings from the pre-heat, showing P7, F2,and D9
If I want the beans to “soak” for one minute at power level 7, my first rung of the ladder will be 199F & Time > 1:00 Change the power to 9. After one minute at P7, the power will change to P9.
After that, I change all of the times to 1:05 for the rest of the rungs and only control the roast with the Power, Fan, and Drum, setting based upon temperature.

I have not tried to control the bullet with times on every rung.

I was looking at your Recipe and you have times entered for every rung.
That should be okay, but I am unsure of how you have the times setup.
The first 3 rungs after Pre-heat, show increasing times, but on rungs 4, 5, 6, you drop the time back to 1:30. I am not sure which takes priority for the rungs, temperature or time.

I could be wrong, but the way that I think about this is:
I want the changes in Power, Fan, and Drum Speed, to be based upon temperature. I don’t want to stall the roast if it reaches first crack temperature and then has to wait for several minutes before the time will allow it to go to the next rung. I can’t even visualize what the graph might look like for that situation.

If we think about how coffee was roasted before we could record time and temperature, most of the decisions were made based upon smell, sound and color of the beans.

As I said: I could be all wrong on this. These are just my thoughts.

Edit: Your roast profiles look very good.Ratios, RORs and the main curves make me jealous.

Edit, Edit: I borrowed your Colombia Recipe, cloned it and I will run a 600g batch on some Colombian beans that I have. My OCD demands it.

billc · October 8, 2024, 2:56am

Okay, I was wrong. very wrong.

I ran one of @tbird1306 's recipes with times and it came out great.
I used some Sumatra Natural beans that I just got in today.
I am anxious to cup it.

Welcome to the rabbit hole. You coming?

@tbird1306, I think that I understand your original question better now.

The fact that you can’t have shorter times that 1:30 makes creating a recipe with the Bean Temp Probe very difficult.

I am just guessing, but I think that, they are waiting for the lag of the Bean Probe to catch up and go past the turning point which is typically going to be more that 1:30.

You could probably get around this by programming the first few rungs with the IBTS rather than the Bean Probe.

I created an example recipe where the only first rung is using the IBTS and after that it changes to the Bean Temp Probe.

The Pre-Heat will pass on the parameters that I set in it (P7, F2, D9) and begin roasting with those.
The power will stay at P7 until the IBTS detects 180F and the time is greater than or Equal to 1 minute then bullet will change to P8.
After that we are over 1:30 and we can use the Bean Temp Probe.
I am sure that this will work.
(By the Way, I got the 180F temp by analyzing your roast and seeing where you had turned on P8 before.)

Here is a link to the example recipe:

Now I’ve got to figure a way to scale up these recipes with times for 750g

tbird1306 · October 8, 2024, 3:51am

Thanks for all that Bill!

I am reading through all the information you shared, and I think I agree regarding using the IBTS for the initial stage, considering lag etc…

But to go ahead and use the profile to roast one for yourself?!?! You’re a damn legend! And the profile looks fantastic too!

I will add your recipe to my stash and then cross reference with a roast in the next few days!

Glad to see the sumatra came out looking like it did, and I am eager to hear how it cups. Its a lighter espresso, almost omni, but very versatile!

Thanks again my friend!

billc · October 8, 2024, 6:13am

My example recipe should be just about the same as your Colo Tolima Espresso - Foundation Recipe. with the exception of the first rung being IBTS.

Thanks for the challenge. I don’t think that I would have gone down this path without it.

jacob · October 8, 2024, 7:47am

As Bill correctly pointed out, the reason for min. 1.5m is the turning point and the high bean probe temp in the beginning which would trigger a lot bean probe triggers and cause a lot of confusing.
The recipe’s initial settings will be used from the very beginning of the roast.
If the recipe does not trigger like it should then pls let us know.

tbird1306 · October 13, 2024, 11:00pm

I have modified my current recipe with the example you made (which i stashed) and I am now 2 roasts into the Brazil, and it’s going perfectly!

Thanks to everyone’s comments! You’ve really helped me out!

billc · October 14, 2024, 4:55am

This is a Sumatra Natural from Lues. Extremely fruity, It took almost a week for the fruity flavors to come through. This is almost too fruity to drink by itself. But as a fruit component for a blend, it is awesome.

I blended 60% Colombia Buesaco City+ with 20% Huehue Full city+ for the chocolate and 20% of the Sumatra Natural for the fruit notes.

I use a naming convention to help me keep track of my roasts:
10/7/24, HM, Sumatra, Gayo, Lues, 600g, 464 PH, 407F Drop

Date, Vendor initials (HM = Happy Mug) Location origin country, secondary location, tertiary location, weight of raw beans, Pre-heat and the drop temp

I built a spreadsheet that helps me keep track of my roasts and quickly look at the profiles. I have embedded a screen snagit of the roast profile from RoasTime that shows up whenever I hover over that cell. I also have the recipes that I used for that profile in the next cell.

The idea is so that I can quickly find the roast profile that I am looking for and then see what recipe I used. From there, I can use the profile for an overlay and then run the recipe

If you click on the picture, it will enlarge itself.

Edit: Oh yeah, and it is also a work in progress.