Private Roast Data in Roast World

Aillio Bullet Team,

I am a huge fan of this roaster so far. I am 100+ roasts into this and I know I have TONS to learn. I am also a fan of Roast World and the Roast Community. Props. Lastly, I am a fan of how easy it is to share on this platform. That said -

I think it would be beneficial to allow roasters to make more roasts and other account data private. I saw some other threads saying there is a limit of 100 roasts that you can mark private. I think there should be a “Select All” and/or “Bulk Actions” feature in Roast World. One of those bulk actions should be to mark all private. There should not be a limit to this. Perhaps I am missing a setting somewhere else but is there any way for me to roast on this and not have every other bullet user know what I am roasting?

Not that there is anything to hide… it is just a funny thought… knowing how many blunders are on display :wink: haha

Thoughts on this? Am I missing something? Does the feature exist or is it on a roadmap?

Thanks,
Azahar

I’m with you, at least it would be nice to have better control over sharing.

Buying the Bullet essentially forces you to share your labor and experience for free. Whether to their Machine learning program, or by things automatically going to Roast World.

Not all reasons are a=the same for wanting more control. Can be just for appearances, or wanting to share more valuable information as a show case.

I tried to roast under a different login on my mac, and then go online under a different user name, and my roasts were still uploaded, so I’m not sure where in the system the roast data is stored that they have access to it regardless of which login I use on my computer, if it goes online they get it. Wish there was more control over the data sharing. Or at least some way our labor was better rewarded. I mean we share hundred of hours of work with Aillio, and in the end, if we want access to that machine learning, we have to buy their 2KG bot. I wish we had some access to the trends in roast world. All this data is so specific to the Bullet itself, so it would be super useful to each other to be able to see larger trends and be less anecdotal in the information we get. I think here we often see a couple roast curves, but never see overall trends.

So, if we are flying kind of blind, I’d love to be able to opt out of sharing until they become more open with the information available. Maybe that is me being petty? But in all seriousness, there is little to no value in sharing that data at this time. We can easily share pertinent roast information on the forums in a case by case way, but our roast history and roast trends are really only accsible to aillio’s machine learning program. I wish that was more available to us all in the form of season averages and trends reports. Like Janurary 2022 the average roast curve looked like “this”. I feel that would be really fun way to be rewarded for sharing, help beginners, and it wouldn’t be such detail information that it would benefit aillio competitotrs, it would be like a nice stats update for the home roasting community, and help in dealing with fomo and fud.

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… but yeah, just being able to organize and display data for others in an easier way would be nice. So much information and noise in my roasts because I don’t log anything and jump around a lot. I don’t think any of my roasts are that informative to the average community member, and I would like to be of more use. I think the fear is that all our hard work goes out, and we don’t get to see much come back to us, unless another member shares some specific information in a thread like this, but often that information is biased and anecdotal. Trends are often really useful in giving perspective to the anecdotes and personal experiences. I’ going to go offline with my roaster, or switch to something I can control myself though. I haven’t read much in these forums that has had any impact on my roasting. I’d love to see some hard data trends though. I’d share into that sort of world. but of right now, aillio is classic big business. Not much incentive to us individuals to share, other than laziness in not turning things off or dealing with firmware updates.

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We all have choices and agency here so if you’d rather not share anything at all then use Artisan software instead of RoasTime. There are plenty of ppl, even on this forum, that use Artisan instead. Personally I don’t care that Aillio uses my data for their AiO since I’m just 1 of however many ppl and my data might just be noise. In the end what is a good cup is a personal preference. Will the AiO machine produce a good cup that I would like, that remains to be seen.

Happy Roasting

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From what I understand you would like to have some trend data shown in RW?
This could be a fun way to show how people are roasting, we could look into this.
We are not using any Bullet data to develop the AiO, but we use it to help with support and to add new features to RT / RW where everyone benefit. Also, you have access to everyone’s data on RW so as a community we can all learn from each other.

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Thank you for understanding, and hearing that!

That would be really awesome if we could see roast trends. Idk how often or how many sub categories would be possible, but it would be fun, and give us a common language and some universal references to make great talking points.

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Yeah, just want you all to know we do have features planned that will provide benefit for all of you using this data. Right now, we aren’t actually using it apart from support and for public RW sharing.

Also just to note, there is no limit on private roasts, its just a very manual process right now.

We will be releasing a product roadmap publicly soon to keep you all in the loop.

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Trend data only makes sense to me if it is based only on my data. If it is aggregate it doesn’t make sense. Just my 2 cents :slight_smile: On the flip side, not sure what I’d do with it though because I’m constantly tweaking how I roast. :woman_shrugging:

even if you copy others curves, the flavour wont be the same…plus you never know whether that curve works or not. It’s all about cupping the coffee and adjust accordingly

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Trend data would be awesome. But if I want to help the community get better roasts I should be able to make MORE roasts private that were not GOOD roasts. I am 100% fine with sharing. But being able to better control what is shared is more beneficial for all… in my opinion. And make “private” roasts available to Ailio and not the public and not part of collective trend data.

Oh I didn’t realize! Good to know. But yes… VERY TEDIOUS. Haha

And props for a roadmap. That’s great :slight_smile:

Pat - yes and no. If you’ve never roasted Ethiopian and you could get some trends or aggregate data from the community on Full City Ethiopian roasts (drop temp for 500g and average total roast time, or dev %) it could give a great starting point for someone!

I’ve tried to delete the roasts folder, but the roast data keeps reappearing, even without being connected to the internet.

Interesting stuff, so there is more to where this data is stored than just the “roasts” folder.

Whatever the case, there is no transparent way to opt out of the roast sharing program other than staying off the internet with your computer. However, if you want to share some roasts, it is unclear how to select individual roasts for sharing.

Hmmm, I tried to delete the roasts on my computer so that I can start fresh, and clean out all the old junk, but anytime I go online, it re-syncs all the old roasts back! We don’t even have control over that!

So that begs the question if you want to archive old data on a hard drive, does the “roast time” folders even contain the right information? Can you reliably archive your own data if you don’t even know where it is?

To anyone wanting to keep your roast data private.

I deleted Roast Time 3 on a computer that I was no longer planning to use with the Bullet, and when I went online, aillio was still able to access my roast history.

This is not explained in the user agreement, so aillio is not really trying to help anyone keep their own data private. You could be doing research that you prefer to keep private and in the end accidentally upload everything to a machine learning program, and have all your roasts public without even knowing it.

If you intend to keep your data private, never go online with the computer, even if you delete all known files.

Jimmy - I don’t know what to say other than if you REALLY don’t want data to be public on your roasts you may need to use another software tool. I’ve seen posts saying it’s possible to use Artisan or others with the Bullet. :see_no_evil: :hear_no_evil: :speak_no_evil:

Though that may not be the answer you are looking for and I’d invite the Aillio team to give an official answer on the data privacy piece haha

I’m just saying that I uninstalled the software, but my roast data still went to roast world.

They should be more transparent about where your data is and how it is used.

Hey @jimmybulletroaster , going to chime in here.

So when you register for RoastWorld, you are agreeing to our Privacy Policy: Roast World - Cup, grade, and analyze your coffee roasts in depth

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Which states:

One type of information collected by the Site&Software is in the form of roasting logs (called roast profiles) which are by default publically available from Site&Software unless you explicitly mark them as private. The same is true for sets of automated roasting instructions (called “roast recipes”). This is for the benefit of the community, so that the data we collect can be used to help everyone.

Your roasts are stored in RoastWorld even if you uninstall. Also worth noting that they are still stored if private, but not viewable by anyone but you. RoasTime itself has an in-memory index of the roasts that it will check for lost files and attempt to reconcile which is probably what you are experiencing.

This functionality is for the benefit of you in case anything ever got accidentally deleted. BUT, if you truly want to delete everything, you can reach out to our support and we can delete all your account related data.

Worth noting there has been conversations of non-uploadable private data as a premium feature of sorts, but it is not currently planned.

Can you point out where in that document that it clearly states that even after deleting RoasTime, our roast data will be uploaded to Roast World when we connect to the internet?

RoasTime can not upload data if it is not installed and running. I am not sure I understand the issue you are facing. If the software was uninstalled, what roast data would there be to upload?